[00:00:00] Chair: And now Ben is supposed to introduce our speaker, Charlie C.

[00:00:30] Charlie: Thank you. Hi, I'm Charlie. I'm an alcoholic.

[00:00:36] The banquet's been beautiful tonight.

[00:00:39] This is the first banquet you've had where the tickets were all sold, the food was good, and the speaker went bad. So I'll do the best I can tonight. I want to thank Richard and Mike for allowing me to be here.

[00:00:58] It's been fun. It's just the right size. It's not an overwhelming... I've been to conventions before where there are so many people, you know, and it's... I can't stand people, but... I don't like them as a species, and I think you understand that. They're kind of waste of carbon.

[00:01:29] I've known that since I was a child. They're just... And the problem I have is that I depend on their approval all the time. So I've got this emotional slinky going inside most of the time to either get away from me or, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, where are you going?

[00:01:56] I mean, it just goes back and forth, and that's what I live in most days and have for years, but I got sober on the 11th of June of 1981. That's my only sobriety date. I've had two sponsors in that period: Bill McDonald, who sponsored me until I was 26 years sober, and another fellow, my current sponsor, Bob R, who lives up in Oxnard, and he's been sponsoring me since 2008. And I've been under good guidance for those... for that last... the last 45 years. And, uh, boy, I don't know, I'm not much of a...

[00:02:41] Okay.

[00:02:43] Talking about people, what do you do for a living, what... what do you... you want to know what people do. I, when I was... when my son was born, he was born in 1999. I started late. Um, I thought it'd be fun to have my kids in high school bring their friends home and watch me sit up.

[00:03:02] So, I didn't... my... my... my son's mother would take him to this thing called Daddy and Me, or Mommy and Me. I don't know what it is now, but if it even exists, but you take your kids there, and they had it every... once a month, they had Daddy and Me. And it was in Burbank. I'm from Burbank, and I want to thank the... the comedian who was here. She was great. I thought she was really funny and really charming. So, um, ruined all my momentum for anything, but I... I don't have much to say after that. I, uh... So, I took my son to Daddy and Me for the first time, and it was held in a Quonset hut on a public school. It was, I called it, the adult learning area, which is where they put old people when the school closes, because there's no one left to go there. But, um... and you go there, and you take your child, and you sit down in a room, and there were like 28 guys. We all had our... our children.

[00:03:58] And I had my little boy, Daniel. He's right between my legs, and we're sitting there in a big circle like a powwow. And we sing 38, 40 verses of the wheels on the bus. And, uh, and then we turn them over to facilitators. And then they hang on to them for the next hour and a half, and we go to one of the Quonset huts, and we have a meeting. Uh, it's like... it's like fellowship of new dads who may not know what they're doing. And what the facilitator... the facilitator had to have been a kindergarten teacher, because she talked to us just like this. And she said, "Okay, everyone, I want you to..." "First thing first, let's go around the table, and let's say what our name is and what we do for a living." And I hate that, because I know I'm going to say I'm an alcoholic. If I have to go... If I have to go around the table, and it gets to me, I'm going to say I'm Charlie, I'm an alcoholic.

[00:04:55] And I have to be really conscious of that, so that I don't do it. And by being really conscious, I can't listen to anybody else. It's like... it's like when you're really... when you're really drunk, and you're trying to balance a wad of vomit in your throat, and someone's talking right to you, and you're nodding, and you're going, "Do not distract me, because this is... there's going to be a problem." So anyway, so we're going around the table, and you know, I'm Jeff, and I write for the TIE Show, and I'm Sam, and I'm Plumber, and I'm Jack, and I do this, and he gets to me, and I go, "I'm Charlie," and I told him what I did. I was so relieved, and I just kept going around the tables, kind of moving quickly. And I got this one guy, and he goes, "My name's Tom, and I'm an alcoholic." And he stopped, put his head down, and five of us said, "Hi, Tom." You never quite know where you are or who you're going to run into, but we run into each other all the time.

[00:05:55] I was really glad to run into Dave last night, because I thought he gave a wonderful talk, and I was so touched by it, and so moved by it, because, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I haven't heard, I've heard a lot of talks, but I haven't heard a lot about the shame people carry around, and the guilt, and the regret that I hear from most male alcoholics. All the guys I've sponsored, I've heard their inventories, and they have a deep well of just sadness about the things that they hadn't done, and were sorry about it. You know, you hear the braggadocio, "I don't have any regrets. I don't have any shame. I don't have any guilt anymore." Well, you know, whistling in the dark, and I think we come in here just, I was a walking bag of unmet needs when I came into AA. I just was like, and, but I couldn't show it, so I just kept my hands in my pockets and whistled, you know, most of the time, and didn't know what to do.

[00:06:55] And I should probably start chronologically. I'm glad Eileen's here, too. I love Eileen. I think he's my pal. And Gary is, I'm glad Gary's here because he's my buddy. And so I go around the room and pick out all the people I want to be friends with. Because there's nothing more pathetic than a 75-year-old man trying to pick out new friends, you know. I was born in Glendale, and we fled there about seven years later and moved to Anaheim, getting away from the religious persecution in Glendale, I think. And we lived in Anaheim, which is the city that can't be underestimated. And I went to elementary school there, and I was bullied by a much nicer body of bully.

[00:07:53] And then I went to high school there, and it's like Dave talked about it last night, and it's like Mike's brother Nathan talked about it today, and Chris and Barbara. Everybody who's talked this weekend has talked about feeling like they don't belong. They just don't fit in. And I think most people probably feel that way, is my guess. Pretty much everybody is that way. You could run out on the street out here and stop cars, and I wouldn't recommend it, but theoretically speaking, you could run out there and stop cars and say, "Do you ever feel like you just don't belong? You just don't fit? You're just not part of anything? That your life is whizzing by, and you don't have any control over it at all, but you try harder, and you wish, you wind up hating people that you shouldn't hate because they're doing better at life than you are." And most of them would go, "Get away from my car," probably.

[00:08:51] But they would probably agree, I think. But I've been that way all my life. I'm an only child. We had a lower middle class family. My dad was a Marine, eight years in the Marines. He was a drill instructor when he was in the Marine Corps in World War II, and he got out of elementary school in fifth grade and never went back to school. He was a farm boy from Minnesota, and he had to teach himself to do everything, pretty much. And he became a really good cattlemaker. And my mom was a woman who had a terrible childhood, and they wanted children, and they had children. My mom had two boys before me and one boy after, and they all died at birth. And they were, you know, I can't even imagine that. And I never even tried to be sympathetic.

[00:09:50] I just shut that out. Because when my last brother was going to be born, I was about seven or eight years old, and they sent me down to the client's house, our neighbor's. And I stayed the night there, and I remember laying in bed and running figure eights on the wall, facing the wall, and saying, "Please God, let my mom be okay, and let that baby be okay." You know, because it was, I just wanted everything to be okay. It wasn't even a matter of life or death. It's just, "I don't know if our family can, we can't take this anymore. I don't want anything bad to happen anymore." And that next day, Mrs. Klein came in and said, "It's time for you to go home now, but your mom will be home later today. Just don't, don't, just let her rest. You know, don't talk about anything to her." And people started putting cards on our porch, on our screen door, and food on the porch. And no one said a word. No one told me a word about it.

[00:10:46] And I was angry. And I didn't even realize how angry I was. Because I didn't want to have anything to do with this God.

[00:10:54] I was raised Catholic. I went to church. I took all the sacraments. And I thought it was all bogus the entire time that I was taking it. And I thought, "Okay, well, I'll go along with it, but I just don't believe it. I wish I could, but I don't believe it." Because God doesn't listen to eight-year-olds or seven-year-olds in their prayers. And everybody goes, "Oh, God hears all of our prayers." No, He doesn't. No, He doesn't. I even feel that way today sometimes, you know. I think all the Allman brothers are dead, and all the Osmonds are still dead. I hate to be petty, but in fact, Tom Petty is dead. And Michael Bolton is still singing. I don't know what happens.

[00:11:40] And that's really, listen, don't come up to me afterward and say, "You should say things about people like him." I'm not saying it's not wishful thinking. It's just sometimes things just don't make sense to me. Why don't good things last all the time? Why don't they last longer at least? Why don't they should have a lifespan that you can count on? Like, when you fall in love, it should last for years before you become irritated with them. Every inflection of their voice sounds like a hand, like fingers going along sandpaper, you know. And everybody, we all feel that way about each other. Clancy talked about it. Clancy used to say, "Nothing good, nothing lasts once you get used to it. Nothing's wonderful once you get used to it." And I couldn't, I don't like that. And I heard someone else say, this was a long time ago, I heard someone say when I was sober, "An alcoholic wants more from life than the world has to offer." And I really believe that, because I don't know what it is I want from life, but I have found in the past 75 years that the world can't offer me what I want, because what I want is just self-focused and it's my will be done is what I want.

[00:13:04] And it doesn't work that way. And I'm not, and I keep thinking, I'm not a bad person. I just want it the way I want it. And then I've, and I've always been that way. And I, so I was alone most of the time, because when you're alone nobody disappoints you. Right? Except in the newspapers, you read that, you know. So, I got through school with potential. We've talked about that before. I was told by numerous people that I had potential. Everybody told, everybody. Charles, you know, Charles has potential. We just don't understand why he doesn't do anything with it. And I thought, you know, I know I've got potential.

[00:13:47] You clearly do, because you're telling me I do.

[00:13:51] And, and I will use my potential as soon as I'm, when I'm goddamn good and ready to use it, I will use my potential.

[00:14:01] But until then, you might want to take your concern for my potential. And when, when I do use it, you'll know because you're going to need sunglasses, Scooter.

[00:14:11] But until I deign to use my potential, I suggest you go wipe your concern for it on somebody else. Because if you were such hot stuff, you wouldn't be a high school counselor, would you?

[00:14:28] It never came out in exactly those words. I usually said something like, I'll try harder.

[00:14:35] But, so I graduated high school with my potential flag flying. And I, um, the next year I got a decent lottery number. I couldn't get, I wasn't going to get drafted to go. I had to go through the whole draft process. But a year later, I got a decent lottery number. And I didn't have to go. A lot of my friends did. And, um, and you would think I would have parlayed into something meaningful. Getting that kind of a break. And I didn't. I, well I went into the music industry. I was, I was a clerk in a record store. But I was working there. And, um, and some guys, some guys came in. And this all leads up to something, trust me. So I'd be just sitting there going, what is he talking about? Um, some guys came into the record store when I worked there. And, um, I didn't like them any more than I liked the other customers. But, uh, because they would come in and it's... Anybody see the movie High Fidelity? There was a guy in there who didn't like anything anybody asked him for. I was that same kind of person. They'd go, do you have the new Tommy Rowe album?

[00:15:34] I'd go, Tommy Rowe, are you listening to that rubbish? You know, let me show you what we really got over here. So, uh, so I'm working in there and these guys came in. They were the hoodlums from my high school. These guys were trouble, like capital T trouble in high school. And they come, came in. There's two of them. And they recognized me. And, and they, uh, they said, would you, uh, would you like to, we're going to have a party on Saturday night. Do you want to come to a party? And I thought, I don't, I've never been to a party in my life. I was, I just turned 18. And I'd never been to a party in high school. I never had a girlfriend in high school. I never, uh, drank in high school. And I don't know what I would even do at a party. Because as I understand it, there would be others at the party. And that's, that's not going to work. So I said, okay, I'll go. And I, um, got my best friend. His name was John. And John and I, uh, went to the party. And he drove. And I got in there.

[00:16:34] And at five minutes into this party. And I realized, this is exactly why I'm going to parties. These people are idiots. It was, there were, like, 250 kids in this old Victorian house in Santa Ana. And, and they were, they were Sears hippies. Which is, they were the hippies that, that became hippies when the clothing got to Sears. You know? Once a leather fringe jacket got to Sears, they all of a sudden were down for it. You know? And, uh, and they were dancing around. And, you know, half the room's on acid. And the other half's drunk. And they all think they're vibing. You know? And, uh, speaking in that Philosophy 101 horseshit banter. And I couldn't stand it. I stood there thinking, why did I come here? I'm looking for my friend. Well, we've been there five minutes. He's having a good time somewhere. I don't know what to do. I'm standing there and this guy walked by and he handed me a can of malt liquor. You know, the people's beer.

[00:17:32] And, um, somebody right out of, right out of his, you know, poli sci 101 class. And, um, handed me this malt liquor. And it's like, in those days, I don't know what it is now, but they, they were cans about this high. You know? They used to have what they called a freeway flyer where you drop one of those in a long bag. And you twist the bottom of the bag and set it between your legs. And you can drive with it and it doesn't get cold. You don't get cold. You don't get cold. It stays cold. Anyway, I digress. So he hands me this can of malt liquor. And I'm thinking first thing, A, if my dad finds out I'm at a party with these hippies, he's going to kill me. Because my dad hated hippies. Because my dad hated hippies. Uh, you couldn't watch a TV show with him if there was a hippie on him. Because he would just make wisecracks, you know.

[00:18:24] And, um, if he finds out I'm in this place, in this room, with these people, and I'm holding a can of malt liquor, and I just turned 18, he is going to kill me. And then I thought, if the archbishop of the archdiocese of Orange County finds out that I am here after taking all the sacraments, after having said it my confirmation, I would not drink until I'm 21 years old and took a pledge on St. Peter's name. But I would not do that. And I'm standing there with a can of malt liquor with a bunch of hippies in this room. I'm going to get excommunicated from the church I don't even believe in. You know? And this is all going through my head that fast. So I started drinking it, figuring no one's going to offer me a Pepsi. And I started going on this can of malt liquor.

[00:19:22] And halfway through that can of malt liquor, it occurred to me that I had been way too hard on you people.

[00:19:30] I started to feel happy. Like, real happy. Comfortable. Not like the people that I would have stopped in the car to ask them if they ever felt this way before. I just felt a sense of joy and anticipation that I never expected to feel. It was like, bring it on.

[00:19:53] What?

[00:19:55] What is happening here? I felt taller.

[00:19:58] I felt...

[00:20:00] I felt attractive. Like, you know, girls, my eyes are up here attractive.

[00:20:09] Single line, girls, no shoving. No shoving.

[00:20:14] There's plenty here for everybody.

[00:20:17] I never, I never tested that out, but I sure felt that.

[00:20:22] It was a dream.

[00:20:24] But I just felt...

[00:20:27] And I felt that anticipation that only alcohol gives me.

[00:20:31] A sense that it's going to be better later.

[00:20:35] And it feels like it's going to be better right now.

[00:20:38] I know it's going to be better. And I drink to get to that place that I can only describe as there.

[00:20:44] When I drink, I don't get drunk.

[00:20:46] Other people mistake it for drunk, but I don't get drunk.

[00:20:49] I get there.

[00:20:51] Where everything is fine.

[00:20:55] Finally.

[00:20:57] And I can see that things are going to be really helpful and wonderful.

[00:21:02] And I can...

[00:21:03] I don't even look in the rear view mirror anymore.

[00:21:05] It doesn't matter.

[00:21:07] I am propelled into a sense of happiness.

[00:21:09] I just want to be there.

[00:21:11] And my belief is...

[00:21:13] I do not approve literature stuff, but...

[00:21:16] My belief is that more alcoholics go out under the delusion that they can find there again.

[00:21:26] Than any other reason for going out.

[00:21:29] It's not a broken heart that gets us drunk.

[00:21:31] It's not a loss of a job.

[00:21:33] It's a loss of a sense that things are about to get better.

[00:21:39] That's right. And we don't know it.

[00:21:41] And I drank the exact way I drank that night for the next 12 years.

[00:21:46] I drank in blackout.

[00:21:48] I came out of running alongside of my friend's car and hanging on to the door handle.

[00:21:52] And he's laughing my ass off because I've been there.

[00:21:56] Once you've been there, you hear people tell stories.

[00:21:59] Virtually everybody in AA comes up here and said...

[00:22:02] Women too will get up here and go...

[00:22:04] You know, I graduated from a Catholic school.

[00:22:06] I was very proper.

[00:22:08] I was helpful.

[00:22:10] I was in the Girl Scouts and this and that.

[00:22:12] And I drank a beer and took on the Lakers.

[00:22:16] And I swore I was going to do that the rest of my life.

[00:22:22] And you go, wow!

[00:22:24] Can you get me some of that stuff that you were eating?

[00:22:27] I want to get where that is, you know?

[00:22:30] I don't want to just be a better person than you know.

[00:22:39] So, I drank that way.

[00:22:42] I have a terrible drunkal log.

[00:22:44] Drunkal logs are great.

[00:22:46] I really identify with people who do drunkal logs.

[00:22:49] I really identify with Dave last night.

[00:22:52] I identify with Fran.

[00:22:54] I didn't have that same kind of drunkal log.

[00:22:56] And I was afraid when I was doing AA that it wasn't going to...

[00:22:59] I'm not going to get up here talking about a drunkal log.

[00:23:02] You know, especially when you're behind...

[00:23:04] You know, you have to follow someone who just said...

[00:23:07] You know, when I came out of my last blackout, I was laying in the ruins of our Nairobi village.

[00:23:13] You know, you go, holy crap!

[00:23:15] Last time I came out of a blackout, I was laying on the floor of the men's room at Carl's Jr.

[00:23:19] You know, with my friends going, my friends going, Charlie, are you okay in there?

[00:23:27] Why'd you open the door, man?

[00:23:30] This is the manager, can you open the door?

[00:23:33] That's AA lore stuff, you know.

[00:23:38] I had 12-step the guy when I was six months sober.

[00:23:44] I gave him my card at book study, which was my fault.

[00:23:48] Although, I've got to tell you, if you're afraid to work with newcomers, like you have terror of working with newcomers, give me your card.

[00:23:56] That's like giving a cross to a vampire.

[00:23:59] I'm dying, I'll do anything to stay sober. Well, here, call me in the morning.

[00:24:05] What?!

[00:24:07] I don't want to do that.

[00:24:10] Anyway, this guy called me, and he needed to talk to somebody.

[00:24:17] And he said, "I don't know what to do, man.

[00:24:20] I'm like five days sober, and I think I'm going crazy, and I have a guru in New York, and I want to fly back there, but I don't have any money." So I said, "I'll talk to you, I'll talk to you." I ran home from work and put on my cape, and I shot over again at the door of Bob's Big Boy in Santa Monica.

[00:24:38] And he told me what was going on in his life.

[00:24:44] It was absolutely madness.

[00:24:46] And I said, you know, my sponsor told me, "If they slow down at all, just ask them how they got to AA." And I went, "Okay, so how'd you get here?" Meanwhile, I'm trying to get the utensils to my side of the table.

[00:24:59] And I was like, "Look there!" So he said, "Oh, oh man, the SWAT team." And I went, "What?" And he said, "Yeah, Sunday." I was drunk Sunday in a motel down the street, and people said I was yelling.

[00:25:17] I was in a blackout, but they said I was yelling and saying I was going to kill somebody or shoot somebody.

[00:25:21] So the next thing I know, I'm laying in the parking lot, and the guy's got a boot on my neck and a shotgun to my head.

[00:25:28] And says, "If you move, I'm going to shoot you." And I'm sitting there thinking, "Wow, you know, how am I going to tell this guy I got brought here by Debbie?" Maybe I had jumped at this 12-step thing too soon.

[00:25:55] But, anyway, I drank through a marriage.

[00:26:02] I married a lovely woman who I wanted to be a writer after I left the music industry.

[00:26:08] I thought I'd be a writer, so I got a job at Santa Monica College Bookstore.

[00:26:13] And a stepping stone job, just until I get my writing career on its feet.

[00:26:18] I was there for, I don't know, 12 years, but I started going back to school.

[00:26:24] I took a class here.

[00:26:26] I was in junior college for something like 23 semesters, just taking a class here and a class there.

[00:26:33] And nothing added up. It had no direction whatsoever.

[00:26:37] And so I'm married, I met this girl at the bookstore who was a cashier, just a lovely human being.

[00:26:46] And we were in our early 20s, and it was a terrible, she really, oh man, did she make a bad mistake.

[00:26:54] You know, they say, I hear people say, "I had a bad picker." She really had a world-class bad picker, I've got to tell you.

[00:27:01] And she had a brother who was an alcoholic and drank terribly and was always in rehabs.

[00:27:06] Now, they didn't have any rehabs back then in the late 19s, mid-1970s, but they did have a lot of dry-out places where they'd send you to, they'd lock you in a room until you shook it out.

[00:27:16] And her brother had been in there a couple of times.

[00:27:19] And so, the first time I had to meet him, he came over to our apartment.

[00:27:24] Because I'd said to her one time, you know, she said, "Do you want to, do you want to, you said if we lived together for a while that you need to get married or not?" I said, "Okay, well, you want to get married?" With that kind of enthusiasm.

[00:27:38] So, she invites her brother over for dinner.

[00:27:41] He comes over and she tells me before he comes over, "Do not give him alcohol.

[00:27:45] Do not drink while Bob is here because he's been in a number of hospitals and he gets really sick when he drinks." And I thought, "Come on, you know, I know how to read people." So, he came over and of course I brought out a bottle of bourbon because I like a good phlegm cutter in the afternoon.

[00:28:08] And, you know, one of those months where you pour it in the glass, you just fire it back and go, you know, I just get all that stuff out and I can breathe easy again.

[00:28:22] So, Bob and I started drinking and we're having a great time.

[00:28:26] I just met him, just a great person.

[00:28:28] What's all this nonsense about alcoholism and stuff?

[00:28:31] And then I looked over after about an hour, we're playing music and having a great time.

[00:28:35] And I went over and she's standing in the doorway of our bedroom going like this.

[00:28:39] This is the international sign from your spouse that you're not going to get a compliment when they give you this.

[00:28:46] And I said, "Excuse me, Bob. I need to go talk to your sister." And we walk in the bedroom, she shuts the door, she goes, "She's got tears in her eyes." And rightfully upset, and I'm not making fun of her because her reaction was a normal reaction to this, to watching someone, a self-destructive brother, continue to destroy himself.

[00:29:07] But she's with a nitwit who understands her brother and encourages him.

[00:29:14] And she said, "You've got to stop giving Bob alcohol. Bob is an alcoholic." And I was rocking on my heels and I said, "Bob is no more of an alcoholic than I am."

[00:29:29] And the problem we have here is that you are a nag.

[00:29:34] And you need to back it up, sister.

[00:29:39] And I turned on my heels and walked out the bedroom door.

[00:29:44] And she stayed in there, she was sobbing, so we just turned up the stereo, you know.

[00:29:48] And, sadly, two weeks later, Bob died.

[00:29:57] He drowned in Lake Kestaic.

[00:30:00] He went out there with some friends, he got drunk one afternoon, he took some pills, he went in the lake, he didn't come out.

[00:30:06] They had to drive to the lake the next morning to find him.

[00:30:09] And no one talked about alcoholism after that.

[00:30:14] And it was real silent around the house.

[00:30:17] And he left a wife and a five-year-old daughter. His wife was Debbie.

[00:30:21] And Debbie wound up, we were married, we wound up, it was just on our honeymoon, I wound up, we went to Carmel, which is a romantic place for a honeymoon for a couple of 23-year-olds, 24-year-olds.

[00:30:37] We'd go to the Highlands Inn up there, and it's just like a dream.

[00:30:42] And we'd go in there, we'd have a nice dinner, and go back to the hotel, and get her all comfortable in there.

[00:30:49] And I said, "Excuse me, I've got to go out for about an hour, I'll be back." And I left.

[00:30:56] And I went down to the bar in downtown Carmel, and just drank there until 2 in the morning, with a bunch of people.

[00:31:03] And came back, drunk, and to my bride.

[00:31:08] And it was, in retrospect, it was something that brings shame.

[00:31:15] And that's just one of a thousand things I did.

[00:31:18] That's not even the top five, top ten.

[00:31:21] That's just one thing.

[00:31:23] And she tried to be understanding about it, but she lost her sense of humor the third night that I did it.

[00:31:31] You know?

[00:31:33] And our marriage was tense, and she wanted a man, and she didn't want an old boy.

[00:31:41] And that's what she had, you know?

[00:31:44] And we got divorced after five years.

[00:31:47] She was kind to me, and she wasn't vindictive at all.

[00:31:54] And we just got this divorce, and I wound up living in a converted garage that her stepfather had owned, her stepmother.

[00:32:03] And then I got mad that I should have to leave our home and live in a converted garage, so I did what every male alcoholic does.

[00:32:14] I went to live with my mother in my mom's house, which is what, if I ever open a rehab, it's going to be called my mom's place.

[00:32:25] Because they make a mistake with those places.

[00:32:28] I have sponsored guys from those places. And they go, you know, I've been here for two years.

[00:32:33] You've been in a rehab for two years?

[00:32:35] Why don't you get a job, son?

[00:32:37] I mean, that's how we used to get sober, you know?

[00:32:40] We had work.

[00:32:42] And so I moved back to my mom's.

[00:32:46] If I called it my mom's place, no one would want to stay there long.

[00:32:50] Because everybody wants to stay at Phoenix House, you know, or Victory House, you know, get the sweatshirt. But no one's going to parade around the sober softball game with my mom's place on your shirt.

[00:33:04] No one.

[00:33:05] But that's, I digress again.

[00:33:08] And so I moved back to my mom's house.

[00:33:14] She wasn't living here.

[00:33:16] About seven years after my father died.

[00:33:18] My father died when I was 23.

[00:33:20] And she moved in with her new husband.

[00:33:23] She had married this fellow.

[00:33:25] And while I was there, I was months behind on the payment, the house payment, which is about 140 bucks, which is a lot of scratch to pull together when you're a drinking alcoholic.

[00:33:36] And so I wound up, I went to, I went to therapy because my ex-wife said, you need to go, you need therapy.

[00:33:48] And I went to a therapist who was very kind and very, she listened. Her name was Daisy. She, her parents had been in a concentration camp. And she had numbers tattooed on her arm when she was a little kid.

[00:34:01] And she was the most compassionate, kind lady. She wasn't an alcoholic or had nothing to do with AA.

[00:34:06] But I went to her for two years and nothing changed because I would knock my head and tell her the stuff and she would, you know, listen.

[00:34:14] And then I would just go out and behave the same way that I always did.

[00:34:18] And I was getting sicker. And I was peeing blood. And I was having every bit, every manifestation of alcoholism that you can have really.

[00:34:26] And missing work or messing up at work. And I was just on the edge of losing that job. And I couldn't lose that job because I had to have the money. And I went to a meditation retreat in June of 1981. And I wound up, after a guided meditation through hell, it was meant to be reflective and cool and relaxing and thoroughly cleansing.

[00:34:57] And all I could feel was a shag carpet coming through the back of my shirt, you know. So, I was going to commit suicide at the meditation retreat. You know, always a big laugh at an AA meeting. You know, really, you know.

[00:35:18] If you ever feel like you want to commit suicide at a meditation retreat, be sure you've saved your receipt.

[00:35:24] Because somebody is going to need it. Because somebody is going to need it. And...

[00:35:28] But I didn't do it, is the thing. I'm just cutting to the chase, because I want to get finished with this. I don't know.

[00:35:37] I went out on the... She said, you know, I've seen myself in the guided meditation when she asked us all to envision where we're going to be in five years from now. Everyone else, I'm sure, was seeing wedding receptions and graduations, etc. And I saw myself hanging from the bathroom door at my mom's house, with a robe from my... With a tie from my bathrobe around my neck, hanging from the bathroom door. That's what I saw at a meditation retreat.

[00:36:04] And when she was done, she said, okay, now, I want you to go out on the grounds. And I want you to spend the next five hours until dinner thinking about how you're going to get there in five years.

[00:36:23] And I want you to be a cruel witch.

[00:36:27] And I went out on the grounds, and I really was convinced that perhaps I should kill myself. I was convinced that I had no...

[00:36:34] What I was convinced of is that my life was not going to change. I was going to go home from the meditation retreat, and I was going to drink exactly the same way I drank the day before I went up there.

[00:36:44] I was starting to detox at the meditation retreat, but I know I will go back and drink again, and I will feel a little better, and I'll make all kinds of assurances to myself, and the same cycle will happen over and over and over, and I don't know how it's going to end, and I am terrified, and I want to die, but I don't have whatever it takes to kill myself.

[00:37:08] And at that moment, I felt inside was something. It was like a voice, but it wasn't really a voice, but it said, you know, you are everything that you're afraid of, and I still love you. And I felt love for about 30 seconds at this, out in the middle of nowhere, at the meditation grounds, sitting out there under a tree with a woodpecker going at it above me, and thinking, I felt love for about 30 seconds, and I felt love from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I felt like just so full of something that was good, and it went away in like 30 seconds, just flared and moved away. And I have to tell you that I believe that that was a higher power, getting its nose into my life, and saying, I'm here.

[00:37:59] Because my higher power up until then was failing me, and that was alcohol. It wasn't getting me where I needed to go for a little bit, but I couldn't get there anymore. But I kept thinking there, if I just hold off a little bit, I'd find there again, but I couldn't. And I left that meditation retreat, and I went home, and I haven't had drinks since, and that's June 11th of 1981. And my life didn't get better. I started detoxing more and more for about four days. I forgot how to walk one day at work.

[00:38:30] I had to figure out how to walk again.

[00:38:34] It's hard to explain unless you've had that experience.

[00:38:37] And I was just so confused and so balled up.

[00:38:41] And then I got a call from my soon-to-be ex-mother-in-law, and she said, you know, Debbie is in a rehab, and she's getting out.

[00:38:49] She's been in a rehab for three weeks, and she's getting out, and she needs someone to take her to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Can you do that?

[00:38:56] And I thought, well, yeah, I can do that.

[00:39:00] I've been separated from my wife for 20 minutes to get something going with this girl.

[00:39:06] I thought she was attractive, you know.

[00:39:10] And she immediately goes to, you know, men, for those of you who may not understand this, we're like acrobats.

[00:39:17] We're not going to let go of this bar until I've got my hand on this bar.

[00:39:21] Then I can swing with the greatest of ease.

[00:39:24] But I'm not going to let go of both bars at the same time, thank you very much.

[00:39:29] So I go pick Debbie up, and I'm driving her to this meeting, and it took 20 minutes to get from the place where she was, which is called the Care Unit. It took us 20 minutes to get to the AA meeting, and in that 20 minutes she 12-stepped me.

[00:39:49] She had had H&I people coming in there every night, or every week, and talking to them.

[00:39:56] They had all kinds of people coming in and talking to them. But she said the only people I believe were the AA people because they weren't, they didn't have anything gained from it. They didn't have, they weren't leaving, you know.

[00:40:06] They didn't ask for money from us. So they just said come to a meeting when you get out and check it out and see if it's for you. And she said, so one of them was there last Thursday. And she said when you get out on Sunday, be sure you go right to an AA meeting so you don't have time to think about it and talk yourself out of it. Just go and see if you like it. So she and about 25 of these other people that were in this rehab with her decided to go to this meeting in Tuscan. And I was taking her. And I hated it. I walked in. We pulled up in front. And she said, I said what time do you want me to come pick you up? And she said, why don't you just come to a meeting with me? And I said, because I'm not an alcoholic. You know, flipping away imaginary gnats and looking in the back scenes or voices and things and getting paranoid. Like, you know, why don't you come in? What do you mean by that?

[00:40:57] And she'd been drunk with me a dozen times. And she knew what I was. And she said, well, why don't you come in the meeting? And I said, because I'm not an alcoholic. And she said, well, that's okay because it's an open meeting and they let guests come in. And since you quit drinking this week, like you said, maybe you can hear something and it'll help you. I hate that when people make sense. You know, I was like, I didn't even have time to get my filters up. And so I parked my old folks leg and went into the meeting with her and it was awful. And I was like, happy talk, you know. Everybody had that can-do spirit. I just hate can-do people. Follow your heart. No, please, do not follow your heart. Your heart's out to kill you. And I stayed at the meeting and I liked the speaker. I listened to the speaker and I identified with him. Only for the bad things. He had talked.

[00:41:56] This is how you know you're- this is how you know there might be an inkling that you're a problem. This guy's name was Ron and he was an attorney from San Pedro. And it was a Sunday night and he was up there talking. And he told us about how he had been drunk in the military and he had crashed a jeep that he was in when he was drunk. And he went through the windshield and broke his jaw and they wired him shut. But he said I had a broken front tooth so I could take my straw and put it into my drink, stick it through my broken front tooth and drink that way. And he said someone came up to me and said you can't do that. And I said why? And he said because you're a puker. And when you drink, you puke. And if you puke with your jaw wired shut, you're going to suffocate. And he said and from that moment on, it really got to me. From that moment on, I carried a pair of wire cutters in my back pocket.

[00:42:56] Now, people laugh just like you did. Here's what went through my mind. Finally, I come in here and I hear somebody who's talking some sense. That's the kind of, I need to hear how much burnt toast you should eat before you go out so that it'll absorb the alcohol. I want to hear all the tricks of the trade that only alcoholics must know. This is good stuff. I want to hear more of this stuff. Meanwhile, people are laughing because they understood what the joke was. But he, I believed him. I thought that's great. Write that down. You know? And so, Debbie said to me, come back next week. I'm going to take a 30-day chip. And I thought, oh, God. You know? Actually, that wasn't the next week. It was two weeks later.

[00:43:55] But the next week I came back at 4:30. It was a 7:30 meeting. But I had a bottle of bourbon at home and I didn't want to sit there looking at it for too long. And so I came to the AA meeting and a couple of guys were there making coffee. They took me out and talked to me. You know, they played good cop, nicer cop when they sat down. And I went back and they had me set up chairs. And the next week they made me a greeter. Which, I'm the worst greeter you would ever want to have at your AA meetings. I'm standing there going to run. These people are crazy. You know, I looked like a mortician at the door. And that night, Debbie took her 30-day chip. A chip. And I thought, oh, it wasn't that a big deal. And I said, she went up and got it. And all the people from the rehab were crying, you know? And Debbie came back and said, show me her chip. And she stole my beating heart. And she said, Charlie, if you stayed sober for 30 days, you'll get a chip and a hug, too. I went, oh, well, a chip and a hug.

[00:44:54] And I scoffed at it. I thought, that's really the lamest thing that you could ever think of. Now that I'm 46 years old and my girlfriend gave me a chip, I believe in these things now. Something's working in my life. So Chuck Chamberlain spoke that night. And I was the last guy in line to thank him because I didn't know you were supposed to. And he was as nice to the last person in line as he was to the first person in line. There were like 300 people at this meeting. So I went up to say thank you. And he looks at me and goes, how long are you sober, boy? And I said, I don't know, 20 days, I guess. And he threw his arms around my shoulder and said, God, I love you. And he kissed me. And that's where I got alcoholism. It was from Chuck Chamberlain. That guy was a carrier. And I didn't understand a word he said. But man, that was the kiss of death. Because I've had alcoholism ever since.

[00:45:53] And people suggested I go to a meeting that's closer to my house. Because I was working in Santa Monica and living in Anaheim. So I started going to meetings by Santa Monica College. And, you know, my life just started changing. Some of the people there kept saying, you know, the kiss of death for any newcomer. You got a sponsor yet? Oh, oh, no, I don't have this. I think I can do this myself. Well, I mean, this lady named Alice in my group, who was a little black lady. She's probably five feet tall. And Alice was really angry all the time. And she was having Vietnam flashbacks. And she'd never been to Vietnam. And she would, seriously, and she would come up to me. She sat next to me at the first meeting there in the Pacific group. And she said, "How long you sober?" And I said, "About 38 days." Well, she didn't like that because she was like 29 days. She was a little pissed about that.

[00:46:53] And she goes, "You got a sponsor yet?" And I said, "No, I don't." And she said, "We better get you one." "Okay, okay, thank you." And she said, "You got something to write on. How many meetings are you going to?" And I said, "I can't go to meetings." "You got something to write on?" So I gave her a deposit slip of my checkbook because I had a chance I was going to be using that soon.

[00:47:16] And she wrote on the back of that deposit slip, "Directions to every single Pacific group meeting Monday through Sunday in the smallest print I've ever seen from the driveway of the Santa Monica College bookstore." Exactly. Which way to turn to get to that place. I carried that in my wallet until it fell apart. So I see her the next night at a meeting. I see the crowd partying as Alice gets right up to me. And she goes, "You got a sponsor yet?" And I said, "No, not yet, Alice." And she goes, "We're going to get you one." And stomped off. I thought, "Okay." And so the next night was Friday, which was a men's stay, so I didn't have to worry about Alice.

[00:47:57] And Saturday, she was there.

[00:48:01] There was a bigger meeting, bigger parting of the Red Sea as Alice came toward me.

[00:48:06] And I was like, "Alice, back off!" And so the next Monday, because I just took the Sunday off. I didn't come to a meeting because I had to drive in from Alice. I stayed home. I'm going to work on Monday, and a car in front of me slams his brakes on on the 405. I slam my brakes on in my old Volkswagen, and I slide right up five inches from it. Oh, thank God. And I'm sober. And I look in the rearview mirror, and there's a guy driving a pickup truck talking to the person next to him. And he slammed the brakes on just according to me between the car in front of me and him. And the two guys jump out of their cars. And I get out of my car at 4:05, rush hour in the morning.

[00:48:54] And one guy's yelling at the other guy, and they both, neither of them speak English.

[00:48:58] And I'm standing there going, "I don't understand what's happening.

[00:49:02] I don't know what's going on.

[00:49:04] This isn't working. AA doesn't work. Nothing works.

[00:49:08] I could be drinking. If I was still drinking, I'd still be at home sleeping." You know, and that kind of...

[00:49:15] And I'm standing there just freaking out, and the cars are slowing down on the 405 to drive by and see who the idiots are that stop morning traffic. And as they're going by, I'm kind of glancing at them, and I look, and there's Alice in her car.

[00:49:34] And I got a sponsor that night, and he started taking me through Alcoholics Anonymous, and it didn't become like a book study.

[00:49:47] Is someone on their phone back there when I'm talking?

[00:49:50] I can see the light in your face. Put it away, or we'll stay after.

[00:49:54] Um...

[00:49:56] I teach high school now.

[00:49:59] Um...

[00:50:01] I don't go up to your table at Starbucks and get going on my pitch, so...

[00:50:05] Anyway...

[00:50:07] Um...

[00:50:09] I was... Shoot.

[00:50:11] I grew up in Anaheim. And, um...

[00:50:16] I'll give you the part you missed.

[00:50:23] So, this sponsor took me through everything.

[00:50:27] He told me...

[00:50:28] I had to get a big look.

[00:50:30] Uh... It's like reading something out of the ninth grade. You know, boys' life language.

[00:50:37] And I'm reading it, and Bill said, "I don't want you reading that at home. I want you to go to a book study on Tuesday nights. We have a book study at Marine Park. I want you to go to that. But don't read that book at home. Go to the book study. Read it with the other alcoholics. And listen to what their experience is with it. And then you can go home and think about it. But Donald went, "Don't read the book again. Until you go back to the meeting." I did that for three years. Because I said, "Why can't I read the book?" And he says, "Because you will argue with it.

[00:51:02] Because you're an arguer.

[00:51:04] So you're not to read this book." And, um...

[00:51:09] So I went, you know...

[00:51:11] Did that. And he told me, "I want you to do the men stag every Friday so you can hear how sober men handle their lives.

[00:51:16] You know, through the AA plan.

[00:51:19] And I want you to get to the home group meeting and get commitments at all your meetings. I want you to get there early and shake people's hands. I don't want to see you sitting in your seat before you hear the gavel. I want you walking around asking people their names and shaking their hands." And meanwhile, I'm going, "Oh, God." I raised two little kids. And I know that feeling when... You know when little kids go dead weight when you're trying to take them someplace they don't want to go?

[00:51:42] And they just twist in the wind.

[00:51:44] And their arm seems to have no complete ability to do a 360.

[00:51:50] And that's how I felt inside every time he would say this. "I want you to get to meetings early." "Oh, no, God, no. I get there 10 minutes before it starts and I get there an hour early. And I want you to talk to people. And I want you to go up and when anybody participates in the podium I want you to walk up and say thank you." "Okay." And he said, "I want you to call me every day." "Oh, God, all right." And I thought, "Why did I ask this guy to sponsor me?" And he had said right before he started telling me what to do, he said, "You willing to do anything to stay sober?" And I said, "Yeah." And so he started giving me all this stuff. So we get to the end of it. He goes, "I also want you to get on your knees in the morning and at night when you wake up in the morning when you go to bed at night and I want you to say thank you to that God. Call it anything you want, but thank it." I didn't like that God, but I'm desperate. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't understand anything anymore. And I said, "Okay, okay." And he said, "Oh, and before I see you Friday at the men's dad why don't you shave that mustache off and trim your hair?" And I thought, "You have, woohoo, calls." And I looked at him, because I was 30 years old the time, I looked at him and he said, "I know what you're thinking." I thought, "Oh, I bet you do." And he said, "You're thinking, why would I ask you to shave your mustache off?" And I said, "Hmm?" And he said, "You were just, just 30 seconds ago, you said you were willing to do anything to stay sober." And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "I just asked you to shave your mustache off." "Yeah." And he said, "If you're not willing to shave your mustache off just because I asked you to, what makes me think you're going to be doing these steps when I ask you to do them?" "They're a lot harder than shaving sport." "But I guess I'll find out if you're a loser or not on Friday." And he got up and walked out of the coffee shop.

[00:53:42] So just to spite him, I went home and shaved. And I came to the meeting that Friday night and he put his arm around me and said, "Here we go, sport." And for the next 26 years, he guided my life through Alcoholics Anonymous and taught me what to do. And my life got better. And I wound up, he said, "If you want to complain about your job, then you need to get a better job." And I said, "What am I going to do?" And he goes, "Well, go back to college and get..." Because I'd gotten a degree after years. And he said, "I want you to get a master's degree." And I said, "Okay, get it in English and be an English teacher." "Okay." So always the alcoholic. I double majored in English and education. And so our first semester there, I'm still working at Santa Monica College in the bookstore, and one of the deans called and said, "You're going to Loyola Marymount, aren't you?" I said, "Yeah." And I've known her for a long time. She said, "You're taking classes, right?" I said, "Yeah." And she said, "What's your major?" I said, "English." She said, "Great.

[00:54:45] We've got a class starting next Tuesday, and we don't have a teacher for it. Can you teach it?" I said, "I don't have a teaching credential." She said, "No problem. We can already apply for an emergency credential this afternoon." I said, "I don't. I really don't. Let me call somebody." So I'm on to the phone, and I call Bill, and I start to tell him. He says, "Take the job." And I said, "Yeah, I will. I'll take the job." But I'm thinking, "If I'm at school for another six months, I'll really be immersed in the subject matter, which will make me a better teacher." And all I heard was this, "Brrrrr." And I'm like, "Hello?" And so I went back, and I said, "I'll take the job." And I never looked back. And I taught at the college for eight years, and then I taught -- apparently the pain of teaching wasn't big enough, so I started teaching high school.

[00:55:43] At a Catholic school, so from a guy like me teaching a Catholic school, you should be shaking in your boots if you've got a kid in Catholic school or anything like that. And I didn't like Catholic school because I didn't like Catholics, and I didn't like God. And Bill said, "Well, you've got to figure out your part in it." And I did my inventory of that, because I had to make amends to the IRS, to my mom, to everybody. And I held that back, and he said, "You've got to make amends to the Catholic Church." And I thought, "What? I was eight years old at the time. How do I know what my part was in that?" And he said, "I don't know, but you've been carrying that around for 20 years, and if you don't get rid of it, you're going to drink." And I thought, "Oh, you know, I don't know what to do." So I took the job, and I went in there, and I tried to be an AA member, undercover, in the job. Just all I had to think. Because he told me the night before I went in, he goes, "Those kids can eat you alive tomorrow." And I thought, "Well, thank you for that." And I said, "I've read about them.

[00:56:46] They're tough kids. This is a rough generation." "No, I'm okay. Good, yeah." And he goes, "You can walk in there tomorrow morning, and you can realize it. You never have even thought of being a teacher." I thought, "This is some pep talk." And I couldn't say anything. And he said, "That, or you can choose not to do it, and you can wonder until you're 70 years old whether you could have done it." How do you want to live your life? Do you want to live doing it? Or do you want to live wondering if you could have done it? "What are you going to do?" And I said, "I want to go in tomorrow." And he goes, "Good." Because when you go in there, I want you to think about this. The hand of AA has its hand at the small of your back. Everybody in our group has their hand at the small of your back. If you fail or succeed, it doesn't matter. That hand doesn't move because everybody cares to see what it is that you do. So go do it. And I did it. And I taught for nine years there. And I've got 55-year-old kids that I'm friends with on Facebook.

[00:57:46] Hundreds of them. And so I wound up getting hired as a writer. And I wrote Bugs Bunny cartoons for 25 years and wrote all kinds of stuff. And I just kind of fell into this job. And I could never have figured it out on myself. But let's trust the process. I don't like the process under normal circumstances. But the process works because I never know what's at the end of it. I don't even know where I am in the process usually. But if I just keep moving forward, things start to feel better. And so I did it. And I did this job. And I really loved it. And I wound up getting phased out of it. And I turned 55. I was like, "Bye." And then I did it freelance for the next 10 years. Then I retired. Then I got into some financial problems. And I just couldn't afford to live where I'm living. And I've got two kids. And my divorce from my children's mother was horrific. And I can't even want to talk about it because it was so awful in such a bad period of my life that I want to put it, just to put it in a nutshell, when they were four and five years old, I got full custody of my kids.

[00:58:54] And had to work out for their mother to visit them. And for the next 10 years, it was just a nightmare. And I got, I married at that point. And we married. And she was a wonderful stepmom to my children. I would never be able to thank her enough for that. But we wound up getting divorced at the beginning of the pandemic. And I couldn't afford to live anywhere. And I was thinking, God, what am I going to do? And my sponsor said, well, you've got a money problem. You've got to make some more money. And I said, what do I do? And I said, well, you can always teach. You know how to teach. Why don't you become a substitute teacher? So, yesterday morning, I left my substitute teaching job with, I had ninth graders the last six days. Let me tell you something. It's really nice to be a unifying force.

[00:59:41] Because as a 75-year-old man substitute teacher, I unify their contempt across all races, ages, genders, whatever. And they unite in their, to me. And yet, here's, when I first started doing this two and a half years ago, here's what I did. And I'll sit down after this. And I want to say, I adore my children. My son's 27. He lives with me now. And my son has been through some difficult times. And he had a head injury during football practice when he was 16. And we thought he was going to die. And he wound up going to the emergency room and had to have brain surgery that night. And I couldn't believe it. You know, because when you hear your son's, your child's name and that brain surgery in the same sentence, it's just surreal. And, and they, and they did that.

[01:00:40] They called this, this doctor from, he was on vacation in central California. And he turned his car around and drove back to Burbank to do the surgery on my son. And, and he's fine now. But a few years later, he was with his girlfriend and they broke up. And he played it really, yeah, you know, they were together for three years. And when you're 17, 18 years old, that's, that's a long time to be with somebody. And he was fine. He seemed fine. And then one night my, my, his stepmom came running out on the patio and said, is there something wrong with Daniel? We went running into his bedroom. He was on the floor in convulsion, frothing at the mouth. And purple, his face was purple. And I called, she called 911. And the 911 operator said, do you know, do you know how to do CPR? And I said, yes. And she said, okay, get, start CPR. And I got on my knees next to him and put my hands down. And I, I, I didn't know what to do. I forgot how to do CPR. And I said to her, she's on the speakerphone.

[01:01:39] I said, I'm sorry. I forgot what, I forgot how to do this. I was trained to do this and I forgot how to do it. And she said, don't you worry. I'm going to stay on the line with you. And I'm going to walk you through it. Just do what I told you to do. And she walked me through that. And I did CPR. And while I was in the middle of that, the paramedics showed up. And the police showed up. Because it was a suicide attempt. And, um, he was in the hospital for a week. And he was in a catatonic state. And we didn't know if he was going to come back. He just sat there with his eyes open. He didn't sleep. He didn't talk. He didn't mutter anything. He just kind of looked around the room. And I thought we'd lost him. You know, until, you know, one day I was sitting next to him. It was my shift. I was sitting next to his bed. And I was reading. And there was a nurse, another nurse in the room. And I feel this finger. He was shackled to the bed. And I feel his finger tap in my hand. Because I had it up on the edge of the bed. I feel his finger tap in my hand. And I look going around him. And he goes, "What's up?" I'll show you what's up.

[01:02:37] And his sister, you know, I said, "Do I call your mom?" And my daughter said, "No, don't. We don't need drama in this. We just need Daniel to get better." And my kids are just sensitive, lovely human beings, both of them. And I realized at that point, because of that moment, I thought, after I couldn't remember how to do CPR, I thought, "Alcoholic synonymous doesn't work. I don't have a higher power. Where is it now? I need this thing. Oh, I've heard the sand on the beach. The footprints on the beach started over there." And I had made amends to the Catholic Church by teaching at a Catholic school for eight years and trying to like these kids.

[01:03:38] And, well, you try. You don't know if you're actually succeeding until later. And I realized that, you know, the doctor was there. The nurses were there. The people who cared for him saved his life. He wound up going to a nut house for about a week afterward. The people in there, there was a guy I knew from AA who ran the place. I could talk to him. And my son was in there for a week, and now he's doing much better. He's a wonderful human being, and they both are. And I owe that to Alcoholics Anonymous that I have this in my life. I have a girlfriend now who I adore who's a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. And she has two kids that are a little older than mine are, and her kids and my kids get along just great. And we have a sober, lovely life together.

[01:04:34] And, you know, for someone who hated people, I did everything Bill told me to do. I did all that stuff with, you know, shaking hands and going around the room and asking people their names, etc. And one night, eight months sober, I was asking him, "When am I going to have a spiritual awakening?" I kind of like a spiritual moment, you know. And he said, "Do I look psychic?" "How do I know when you're going to have a spiritual awakening?" "I don't know." I said, "Well, other people are coming in." I hear them at every meeting. They're my peers. They're eight months sober, nine months sober. I heard a woman at a meeting. She came in. I'd never seen her before. Afternoon meeting. She gets up to the podium, she goes, "I've been sober for seven months. But I haven't been to a meeting in six and a half months. But I came back today and I had a spiritual experience. Oh, great. I'm mopping floors, cleaning coffee pots.

[01:05:33] I'm folding the anal retentive sound guy's cords on Saturday night, you know, just right. I'm answering the phones. I'm going, not picking up people and driving in the meetings. I'm doing all this stuff. Nothing. This bitch comes back one day. One day. And all of a sudden it's God's, you know, God's BFF.

[01:06:05] You know what? Say alcoholics want more than the world has to offer. The world has a lot to offer that I haven't discovered yet. I teach every day with those kids when I'm asked to. I stand at the door like the secretary did when I was newly, so when I shook hands with the new people. And I stand at the door for those kids because I want to feel better about them. I don't care how they feel about me. I want to feel good about them. Some of my kids are from good families, from well, well-off families, and I have their little icons next to their names on the rule sheet. And some of my kids are homeless. And some of my kids have mental problems. And some of my kids are just struggling to get by. And when I know that, I know how to deal with them because I know how to deal with people in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I try to treat them with the same compassion I would treat a new person. And try to be, try to walk with them rather than, you know, lay it down on them. And I thank you for that. I thank you for having me here this morning. And thank you for having me here.