Al-Anon Carolyn G. Torrance

 

[00:00:00] I'm Carolyn, a grateful member of Al-Anon, and first I'd like to thank you all for inviting me to speak today. It was so nice. Denise has been so kind, you know, kind of keeping in touch with me through the process. We've had, you know, some really nice phone calls, and it was so wonderful to meet her, and thank you for the great gift basket. It was so sweet, and we just feel so welcome. Thank you so much.

[00:00:26] So I'd like to start out with a quote from Bill W.

[00:00:30] Any family, wife, or children who have had to live with an alcoholic a number of years are bound to become rather neurotic and stewarded themselves. They can't help it.

[00:00:40] And, you know, that really is my family. I mean, what I learned growing up in an alcoholic home and an untreated Al-Anon home was skills to survive that home. But in Al-Anon, I was able to learn skills to be able to thrive in life, so I'm so grateful for this program.

[00:00:58] So what it was like for me, my father started drinking when he was 17, and he married my mom, you know, 20 years later, so he was well into his disease before they got married. And she, too, grew up in an alcoholic home, but, you know, she thought that she'd be able to change my dad once they had a family and had kids.

[00:01:17] I have an older sister who's a couple years older than me, and there's me and my younger brother.

[00:01:23] And when my brother was 30 days old, my mom had her first nervous breakdown. And I was three at the time. I have memories of this. I don't know if it's from people telling me stories or if I actually remember it, but I did feel that abandonment, you know, from her because I was really close to my mom. And so she, you know, would go into a mental institution, be gone a couple months, and, you know, it happened again when my brother was starting, you know, probably kindergarten or something.

[00:01:52] And my mom, you know, eventually they couldn't put her into an institution without her agreeing to that, you know. In the beginning, back in the 60s, your husband could sign you in. So when she was gone, you know, she was kind of tucked away from the neighborhood. But, you know, for, you know, about four or five years, she was, you know, around and wearing bras on the outside of her clothes. I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff coming to our school. And so it was so humiliating.

[00:02:20] And she would, you know, stay awake all night. I mean, one thing with an alcoholic father, you know, he might be drunk when he gets home, but he does end up passing out. You know, my mom was awake all the time. It was really scary.

[00:02:32] And, you know, she would just stare into candles.

[00:02:35] And I did learn, you know, a lot of skills from that home. I learned how to cook and clean. I loved taking care of my younger brother. I used to draft him.

[00:02:44] And, you know, those were some really great skills that I learned. I was a straight-A student. I kind of learned that I needed to make myself presentable, get good grades, because I didn't want anybody to know what was going inside our home. And I don't remember, you know, my mom or anyone telling us not to say my dad was an alcoholic, but we just kind of knew that was something that we weren't supposed to speak of. And I just thought to myself, you know, when I grow up, I'm going to be the best mom there is to be, and I'm not going to have any alcoholism in my life. And when I was 16, my dad was, you know, put into the hospital. He had sclerosis of the liver.

[00:03:22] And that was really scary. I mean, there was a lot of fear there, because he, you know, my mom stayed at home, and he was the one that supported the family, so I was in a lot of fear.

[00:03:31] And he was, at the time, trying to get a divorce from my mom.

[00:03:35] She wouldn't sign the papers, but he went ahead and went to Vegas and married his fourth wife, you know, even though he was still married to my mom. So a few years later, when he had passed away, it was just another humiliating experience. You know, we went to the funeral, and here comes, you know, this wife that my mom didn't know about. And, again, I'm just, like, so humiliated and just hoping that, you know, people don't see the scene that she's making there.

[00:04:02] And I thought to myself, you know, that I hope that all of these secrets are going to be buried with him in that grave. And so I never really talked about that. You know, I got a job when I was 18 working in accounting, and I was going to school, going to college, and my mom said, don't get a full-time job. You'll never finish school. I did eventually finish school, but it did take me a lot longer. And when I was 21, I married my first husband. And, you know, it's like, even though my goal was to, you know, raise a family where there's no addiction or alcoholism, you know, I was still attracted to alcoholics, to drug users.

[00:04:41] And sure enough, you know, that's what I got. And so I found out later that he used to be a cocaine dealer and all these other things about him that I didn't know after we got married.

[00:04:52] And on our first Valentine's Day, when we were married, I opened up our mailbox, and he's being sued for paternity for an ex-girlfriend that he had a baby with. And so I was just so mortified because she got pregnant, you know, during our engagement.

[00:05:08] And again, it's like, here I am living this life of humiliation. And so, you know, he ended up, I, you know, had thought that I wasn't going to have kids for, you know, five or six years because I was pretty young. But the test came back, it was 98.98% that that was his child. And I kept trying to hold on to that 0.02% because, again, I'm thinking, how is this going to look? And so I decided, you know, maybe I should have a baby. I mean, she's not even married to him, and she has a child with him.

[00:05:37] So I had a son, and six months later, I got pregnant again with my daughter.

[00:05:41] And I really thought that, you know, this was going to make me feel whole. But, again, I was just, you know, I really didn't have the skills, you know, to be a good wife.

[00:05:51] I was very controlling of him. Definitely, I always wanted everything to be clean and picked up.

[00:05:59] And, you know, he was an addict, you know. He was a chronic pot smoker. He was very dishonest. And so when the kids were about four and five, I remember reading this book about, you know, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. And, you know, I realized I had no respect for him. It was like having a third child. So I did a budget, and I decided, you know, if we get a divorce, I can still keep my house. And so that's kind of how I went through this decision. It was a very businesslike decision.

[00:06:30] And, you know, once I had told him that it was just going to be temporary, but the minute he left, I'm like, I'm changing these locks. I don't want him back. And so I never really, like, allowed myself to grieve. I feel like in my family that we definitely, there were feelings we could feel, but a lot of feelings that we shouldn't feel. And so grief, sadness, that wasn't one of the acceptable feelings in my house.

[00:06:56] So after my divorce, you know, I'd met a man that was so different, you know, than my first husband. You know, he had a job. He was responsible.

[00:07:08] And when I met him, you know, I like to say that he kind of disguised himself as an alcoholic, because I saw him at this party, and, you know, he's taking shots, and, you know, he's the life of the party, and that's what I'm attracted to. You know, but little did I know, it was like he was throwing these shots. So he really wasn't, but that's how I ended up with him marrying an Al-Anon.

[00:07:29] And so anyways, we dated for about seven years, and I was really afraid to marry him, because, you know, I was afraid that he wasn't going to think that I was perfect, you know, if he lived with me. There were just things about me where, you know, I was so neurotic about everything, you know, being tidy and clean. But he did go on business trips, and I remember thinking, well, you know, maybe this will work out for all. You know, he won't be around all the time. So we did, we ended up getting married, and he told me the night before he got married, you know, I'd stayed with my daughter, and he stayed with my son, who was probably about 13 at the time. And he said, you know, one thing you need to know about my mom is that when she gets home from work, she's not even going to say hi. She's going to look around the house and say, that polo needs to go there, pick up your shoes, I want your backpack in the closet, and I was just, like, mortified.

[00:08:20] I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to have to work on this, because that's exactly what I was like.

[00:08:25] And so what happened was my younger daughter, you know, I started seeing some signs with her. You know, I didn't really catch on until she was about 12 or 13, but hearing her speak in an open AA meeting, I found out she was 11 when she first started drinking and musing, and I found this big bottle of vodka inside her closet, and there was, like, a tiny bit left. And I was just, like, mortified. I'm like, oh, my God, you know, this can't be happening. And so I approached her, and she told me that it was one of her friends, and I thought to myself, you know, I don't believe that. I knew how my mom, like, always turned a blind eye to my sister and my brother's, like, drug use, and I wasn't going to be that mom. So I reached out to my son, who was just a year older, and, you know, we decided what kind of punishment were we going to give her.

[00:09:17] And so we decided that she should be on restriction. Of course, I don't tell Bruce about this because I don't want him to know that my kids aren't perfect, even though he's living with them at this point.

[00:09:26] And then, you know, a year later, you know, I find this big, you know, shoebox of marijuana that's in her closet with a scale and all these baggies. And so, again, you know, it's like, obviously, you know, she must be dealing pot.

[00:09:41] And I just threw all of it into the trash, and when she came home, you know, I was just so self-righteous and, you know, told her what I had done, and she said it was one of her friends. And I said, will you tell them to talk to me because I'll have them thrown in jail. You know, back then, pot was illegal.

[00:09:57] And so, anyhow, you know, Bruce is on a business trip, thank God, at the time, so he doesn't know anything about this. But he's kind of noticing things. And he's telling me that she's sneaking out at night, and he noticed doors are unlocked. And he's a very light sleeper. You know, I'm a very, very sound sleeper. But anything he said, you know, I just protected her. And, again, you know, I'm just trying to hide all of this that's going on.

[00:10:22] And so when she was 16, we had some police come to the front door, and they said that she was being taken to Harbor, UCLA, because she had alcohol poisoning. And so he's at the door with me. So I can't hide this anymore. And, you know, I'm really, really scared. You know, so we get to the hospital, and here's, you know, my daughter hooked with tubes. And it just brought back the memory of me at 16 when I saw my dad in a hospital with tubes. And I knew that there was a genetic link to this, you know. So I just hated, you know. I hated my dad for this. You know, I blamed it on him. And I was so mad at God because I felt like, you know, I tried so hard to be this good person. And why is this happening to me? You know, first my dad, now my daughter.

[00:11:09] And so it was just really humbling to go through that. And so we, I knew I had to do something. So we started this outpatient drug therapy program at Kaiser.

[00:11:21] And in the beginning, you know, it was so humiliating because they would give her drug tests, and she wouldn't pass. And, you know, I'm just like, she had been this, you know, great student. And, you know, I'm just besides myself. And then as time goes on, she starts passing these tests, you know. So, again, like, I'm getting pride in her work. But, like, oh, my God, look at me. You know, my daughter's passing these tests now. And so we used to go to these twice a week. And we had her biological, you know, father come a few times. And, you know, again, I knew nothing about program. And I just wanted to humiliate him in front of all of these people and, you know, call the carpet on him and tell him about all the drug use that he did. And, you know, everybody's looking at me. You know, I want them to, like, see what a bad dad he was. And that really wasn't what this was about. You know, we were supposed to be working together for her.

[00:12:10] And, you know, lo and behold, he really didn't want to go back to these meetings anymore. You know, I wonder why. And so we, once she was going to stop going, I was, like, really scared because it was a six-month program. I thought, how am I going to test her? Like, what's going to be in my assurance she isn't using?

[00:12:28] So Bruce tells me, you know, don't worry about it. I mean, we can get a breathalyzer.

[00:12:32] We'll get drug tests. And so suddenly, you know, this is what our life is about. You know, it's like we can't go out anymore because we've got to keep our eye on her. We need to be there right when she's there. He, you know, grabs her, does the breathalyzer. We make her take a test. You know, we do all this crazy stuff. And, you know, for some reason, she can't pass these tests. You know, she was passing them in drug therapy. But once we give her the ones that we're getting from CVS, she can't pass them anymore. So, you know, we're kind of devastated at this point. We don't know what to do. But she comes up with all these, you know, reasons. Oh, you know, I had a poppy seed muffin. Do you think that would do this? And, you know, oh, I use mouthwash. Would that have a problem on the breathalyzer? So we start buying all of, you know, her excuses. And so she kind of runs under the radar for a while. So I think we've got this thing licked.

[00:13:20] And then she comes home one night, and she had gone with one of her friends to a meeting to get a 30-day shift. And I'm kind of wondering, like, well, why'd she go to any meeting? She hasn't been to one of those things in, you know, six months.

[00:13:34] And then she tells me that she got a sponsor. And I'm, like, horrified because I do not want my daughter to be an alcoholic.

[00:13:43] And I'm, you know, for some reason I was able to keep my mouth shut when she's telling me this. But I am just, like, so devastated about this whole, you know, thing that she's telling me. And, you know, she says, well, Mom, I never really stopped. And, you know, there's things you can get on the Internet. And, you know, but she was using her friend's urine, you know, to bring to, like, you know, to the different tests that she had or bring it home and all this crazy stuff. So all along that we thought that she had stopped, she really didn't.

[00:14:13] And so suddenly, you know, I'm really uncomfortable with AA because when she was getting loaded, she was at her dinner table. But now she's going to a meeting, you know, every day, sometimes a couple times a day. And I hear her talking about her sponsee sisters and her grand sponsor. And so then suddenly I'm, like, so is her sponsor her mother, you know? So I feel very competitive with this woman. You know, I have to call her daily and discuss, you know, what meetings she should be going to. And it was just really, really hard for me. You know, I just, I really did not understand that this was a disease.

[00:14:47] And so I started noticing differences in her. You know, they say that it's a program of attraction, not promotion. And, you know, that really was true because I started seeing these qualities that she did not learn from me. You know, she wrote me this Mother's Day card about how grateful she was. You know, gratitude, like, I had none of that. You know, I wasn't grateful for anything. I felt like anything in my life I had to work so hard for.

[00:15:13] And, you know, we used to get into a lot of arguments when she was using. And so suddenly now, you know, things start to get heated. She used to say, you could be right, Mom. And she would just walk away with dignity. And I'm like, who is this child? You know, this is not somebody I raised. So I was a little bit curious. You know, even though she wasn't there all the time, I'm starting to notice this difference in her.

[00:15:35] And she starts leaving pamphlets around the house for Al-Anon meetings for me to go to. So I think, all right, I'm going to go to one. So I tell Bruce, come on, let's go to, there's one in Hermosa Beach. And I knew she went to this young people's meeting that was like 30 minutes before that. So I thought, you know what, I could kind of spy on her and see what she's doing in there. So, you know, it was like kill one bird with, you know, kill two birds with one stone. So we go to this meeting, and I am a little bit, like, worried that I might see one of my neighbors there. Because, again, you know, I don't want anybody to know that I'm going to go to an Al-Anon meeting. They might ask questions. You know, I don't realize that everybody's there for the same thing. They're not there to spy on me. And so there were a few things I remember. You know, I remember them talking about anonymity. And so that kind of sunk in.

[00:16:22] And I remember feeling, like, really uncomfortable, but also comfortable at the same time. And there was a lady and man that walked in. They were married, and they were holding hands, talking about going on vacation. And then I learned that their daughter's in a drug rehab, their son's in jail. And that was so counterintuitive to me. I never thought as a mother that I could be happy if I had children that were suffering. Like, I didn't feel like I deserved that. And so that was very attractive to me, seeing that. And I looked at those 12 steps, and the one that I said I wouldn't do was number two. Like, came to believe a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. I'm thinking, okay, my mother was insane at different times in her life. Like, I am not insane, and I'm never going to say that I am.

[00:17:11] So I thought I could do all the other ones except for that. You know, I really want to do an inventory. I heard my daughter kind of talking about that. And I was like, everybody will see how perfect I am. Like, my inventory is going to be spotless. And everybody's going to see, like, what a victim I am. Because I was always the martyr. And so when I went there, I really did not want to get a sponsor. I love to read. I'm an avid reader, so I got a lot of literature. I did a lot of reading on everything. And my husband started going to a men's meeting. And so he got a sponsor right away. And I thought, well, that's good, because he is a lot sicker than me. He needs one. And we would go to this one meeting that was in Hermosa Beach together, but all the other meetings we didn't do together. And in that meeting, one thing I loved is my husband loves to talk. I mean, he loves to talk.

[00:18:00] And there was a timer. So it was a two-minute share. And that was wonderful. And it was like, God, he can only talk for two minutes. Like, what a gift. And for me, I had a full two minutes to share. Without him, he couldn't interrupt me. And so that was something that I loved about it. And they would have these little cards that said, you know, put the focus on you. And so I would look at those cards every week and think, I hope he's focusing on himself. I hope he's reading that card. And it took me so long to realize, like, I need to put the focus on myself, you know. It was like, this is great.

[00:18:32] And so finally, after, you know, just kind of spinning my wheels, you know, I talked to my daughter about stuff. And she would just say, Mom, get a sponsor. Get a sponsor. So finally, that first lady that I saw, I was like, oh, my God, if I ask her, like, she's not going to want to, you know, do this for me. And so I finally got up the nerve to ask her to sponsor me. And she was so gracious. You know, she's like, oh, it would be such an honor and privilege. And, you know, she was so sweet and kind about it. And so my, you know, first assignment was to write an autobiography.

[00:19:04] And I said to her, I go, well, who's going to read this autobiography? She goes, well, me and you. I mean, I shared mine with my husband, but that's up to you. And I was like, oh, if you want me to be honest, like, there is no way I'm going to let him read this.

[00:19:17] So again, you know, I spent a few months writing this autobiography.

[00:19:22] And it was very, you know, it was very healing to me to get all of this stuff off my chest. You know, we're only as sick as our secrets.

[00:19:31] And so, and then I read it to her. And it was, like, so healing for me because I never felt in my home that, like, I was loved unconditionally. I always felt like I had to be perfect, get good grades, you know, cook for the family, clean, do all these things to be loved.

[00:19:47] And so with her, that was the first time I really felt unconditional love. And I remember after she read it, she said to me, you're a good mom.

[00:19:56] And, you know, I just, I needed to hear that because I felt so guilty that my daughter was an alcoholic. You know, I felt like I did her wrong in that dream that I had as a child that I was going to be this, you know, have this perfect family that, you know, I did not give that to her. So I was, I felt really, really bad about that. So that was very healing for me to hear those words.

[00:20:21] And, you know, she taught me that I can't be the same mother to an alcoholic child that I can be to my normal son. You know, it's just, I can't do that. You know, for him, I could clean up after him, you know, do his laundry, organize everything, you know, by color, do all this stuff for him. And it doesn't make him feel bad. But when I do too much for her, it's like I'm robbing her of that dignity. And, you know, I learned early on, like I had done service work at an allathon. And, again, you know, I'm a martyr, so I couldn't get anybody to do this commitment with me. So I had so much work to do. And she had gone to a young people's, you know, convention that weekend. So I had already planned that I was going to clean her room up, do all of these things for her. But I just didn't have the time because I was so busy.

[00:21:09] And so when she got home, I was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I was going to do all your laundry and, you know, reorganize your closet. And I just didn't have time because I had this commitment at the allathon and nobody would help me. And she's like, Mom, you know, maybe you're finally getting better.

[00:21:24] And I'm like, well, don't you like when I do this? She goes, no, I don't. She goes, you make me feel like you think that I can't do this for myself. And it really hurts my self-esteem. And, you know, that was such an eye-opener for me because I felt like I was doing all these things for her. Because nobody did this for me when I was a child. You know, I had to do everything for myself. So I felt like I wanted to be this mother that, you know, would lift that burden from her. And lo and behold, you know, it was doing the exact opposite. So that really opened my eyes. And another thing that really helped me, you know, working with steps with my sponsor was when it came to my dad and my list of resentments.

[00:22:00] I resented him. You know, when he was alive, I really, not too much, you know. I mean, I love my dad. You know, he was a fun guy. But, you know, after I got married and had kids, you know, I realized what a horrible husband he was. And, like, yeah, he really wasn't that good of a father. And, you know, I always felt like if he loved me enough, like, he would have stopped drinking before he got sclerosis of the liver.

[00:22:23] So, you know, that was something that my sponsor suggested. You know, you could go to his grave site and, you know, read an amends to him. Make sure you bring a coffee can if you want to burn that amends. And so I did do that. And it was so healing for me. And suddenly I remembered so many good things about my father. You know, I had remembered all the bad things that he had done. But then I started remembering, you know, he taught me, you know, a really good work ethic to save money.

[00:22:49] And, you know, there was a lot of really good things that he had taught me. And so that really lifted. And then I, you know, I was able to separate the man from the disease. And I realized that, you know, he really wanted to stop drinking. But it was a disease and he couldn't do that.

[00:23:04] And my sister and I, you know, we had a lot of struggles. That was another person I owed an amends to. You know, I was very self-righteous. And I, you know, always, I kind of kept her from her daughter. You know, she had, my niece was really, really close to me. And so throughout her life, she would always come to me more like a mom than my sister. And, you know, my sister did a lot of drugs when she was growing up. And so it was my opportunity to kind of shine and say, you know, think of, like, I'm such a better mother than she was. And so it was just crazy stuff like that. And so my sister and I today, we have a beautiful relationship. And I was able to step out of the way between her and my niece. Because they had gotten into a really big riff. And she was having her first child. And she didn't want my sister to be at the baby shower.

[00:23:53] And I was hosting it. And I just told her, I said, you know, I can't do that to my sister. So I'll gladly host it. But I'm not going to tell her that she can't come. So if you want to have it here, you know, those are my conditions. If not, you need to find another place to have it. So sure enough, she agreed to it. And that really was able to, you know, them to form a better relationship. Because I really stood in her way.

[00:24:19] And my sister's son, he, you know, had struggled with drug addiction and alcoholism as well. And so, you know, thank God I had program at the time because I was a very judgmental person. And so, you know, during my nephew's, like, last 10 years of his life, you know, he was struggling a lot. And when we would host, you know, family events, you know, we told him, you know, you're welcome. But we don't want you here if you're going to be, you know, high or drunk. And so those were the conditions. So a lot of years, he would not come to Thanksgiving or Christmas. And some of the other family members were like, oh, my God, I can't believe you won't let him. We're like, he's invited. You know, we just have rules in our house to keep everybody safe.

[00:25:03] And, you know, unfortunately, my nephew did pass away.

[00:25:08] Again, you know, I'm so grateful for this program because I was coming home from an Al-Anon meeting at the time. And we had moved my mom into a senior living place because he lived with my mom for a while. And it was just, you know, it wasn't a good situation. You know, she was upside down in her bank account. And we just really needed to separate the two of them. And so we never told him where she lived. And so she was, it was probably about, you know, a couple years that she lived there. And he finally ended up figuring out where she was. And so when I called her on my way home, she told me that he was at her house. And I was just like, oh, my God. And so I call my brother, and I'm like, Nick is at mom's house. What do you want to do?

[00:25:54] And, you know, Bruce and I, we were going to Nashville the next day. So I still needed to pack. I really didn't have time to go over there. And he's like, you know what, don't worry about it. I'll check on him the next, you know, on my lunch break. So when my brother went there, he, you know, was locked in a bathroom and wouldn't come out. And so he went there after work. And he ended up being OD. And so my brother had taken him over to the hospital. But it was too late. And, you know, what I learned from that was that was God taking care of me. Because if I wouldn't have had program, I would have went in there. I would have kicked him out. And, you know, my nephew would have died on the street. And, you know, thank God that he ended up passing away. You know, the one person who he loved so much was my mom. And so he could spend the last night with his grandmother.

[00:26:41] And so that was such a gift, you know. And at his memorial service, you know, no one else is in Al-Anon. It's just me and my husband. But, you know, we're there to represent the program. And there's so much judgment with disease. You know, somebody, if he would have died from diabetes or cancer, you know, people would have been sympathetic. But when it happens to be a drug overdose, you know, people are so judgmental and they want to gossip.

[00:27:05] And so, you know, we're able to bring that compassion and that light and show people that, you know, he deserves to be treated with respect. And, you know, I do feel that he was finally at peace because he struggled, you know, a lot throughout his life. And, you know, about a year later, my niece, her husband, ended up dying at Hope Hospital, like during a detox. And so, again, you know, this is just what happens in our family. You know, a lot of times, you know, there's a lot of people that die from this disease, unfortunately.

[00:27:39] And so, what it's like now, you know, I'm a much more peaceful person. You know, there were things that I heard like serenity when I first came here. And I thought, oh, my God, that sounds so boring. Like, why would I ever want to be serene? You know, these were just things. I would go to yoga and I always left at the end. I'm like, why am I going to lay there in Savasana? Like, that's such a waste of my time. I don't care if it's five minutes. Like, I'm out of here. I have things to do. And so, I just never wanted to be peaceful. You know, that was never something that I wanted. And now, you know, I think about different choices. A lot of times, I'll be like, is that going to give my serenity away? I don't think I'm going to do that. So, now that's something that I really hold on to.

[00:28:27] And I had gotten displaced from my job about a year and a half ago. I haven't worked, and so, it was funny because I was always so worried. You know, when my kids were young, I would always tell them, like, you know, hurry up. I've got to, you know, get to work. I don't want to get fired. And I'd tell them this all the time. You know, I had that job for 40 years. I mean, it was so crazy. It was always this fear that I was going to get fired.

[00:28:52] And my husband and I, you know, we, you know, had this, you know, idea of like, oh, you know, he'll retire when he's 70 and I'm 59. So, sure enough, you know, I turn 58, I think, and my boss comes down and tells me the department is going to be closed down. You know, we're all getting displaced.

[00:29:13] And it was like the Thursday before Labor Day weekend, and that's our big South Bay Roundup, you know. So, again, what a gift that I was able to be, you know, have all this comfort from all these people during that. And my first thought when he told me this, you know, it's something that I feared for 40 years, my first thought was like, oh, my God, God's doing for me what I would never do for myself. I would never leave this job. And, you know, it was going to be 18 months. So, by the time this was going to happen, I was going to be like 60 years old. So, again, that was my first thought. You know, during the whole 18 months, I mean, I definitely had other thoughts where, you know, I felt sad about it and like, I'm so good. How could they do this to me? And, you know, all these other feelings, but I kept trying to go back to that first feeling that I felt.

[00:30:00] And it really, you know, I was able to move through that with a lot of grace and dignity. You know, we had to train people in other states for our job, and I just continued to like not take it personal and like bring the traditions of this program with me. So, I was just so happy that I could just get through that.

[00:30:18] And the other thing that I really learned in this program, like today, is how to communicate. You know, funny enough, you know, it's 9-11, and it's 25 years ago. And I just finally had said to my husband, you know, he was like, God, I remember I was in Vegas. He was on a business trip, and there were people there that were from New Jersey, New York. And when it happened, he stayed there. And I remember at the time when it happened, I thought, oh, that's just so typical of him. Of course, he's not going to come home and, you know, comfort us.

[00:30:48] And, you know, I said to him, I go, yeah, I remember at the time, you know, I was like, I wish that you would have came home. And he said, really, I didn't know that. You know, if I would have known that, I would have. But again, I didn't know how to communicate those words. It was easier for me to just be a martyr about it and just always try to think the worst in people. So, today, I was able to finally share that with him after 25 years, you know.

[00:31:11] And so, the other thing that I would say to him, like, you know, things about my car. You know, my home, we never really learned to talk directly. You know, everything, read between the lines. If you wanted something, you had to manipulate to get it. So, I would tell him, oh, you know, my tire pressure's low. And he's like, oh, okay, well, you know, there's a gas station on Prospect and 190th. You can get him filled there. But, see, I wanted him to do it. And I just couldn't say that, you know. So, I'm talking to my sponsor about this. She says, why don't you just ask him to do it and let him know that it makes you feel cared for, you know. So, when I came to him and said, you know, it really makes me feel cared for if you would get air in my tires. Oh, okay. You know, but again, like, I didn't need to, I just didn't know how to ask him.

[00:31:56] I would just make a statement and, like, expect people to just know what I wanted.

[00:32:03] And with my, you know, like, my son, you know, we struggled with him when my daughter first got sober. And my husband and I were both in Al-Anon. And my daughter was in AA because we're suddenly, you know, talking, let go, let God, you know, all these things that, like, he just felt like he was out of place.

[00:32:22] And talking to my sponsor, she's like, you know, it's an open program. He could join at any time. If he's feeling out of place, that's his choice.

[00:32:30] And so, I stopped feeling that guilt for him. And, you know, there would be things where he'd always tell me, I know you love Kayloni more than me. And, you know, he'd get into all these, you know, all this whining about it. And so, right before he graduated from USC, I got a new car and I was giving my old car to my daughter. So, he thought when he came home and he saw this new car in the garage that I was going to give him my old car and not her. And so, he was so ticked off. And, you know, he's like, this is going to ruin my graduation. And, you know, I just did not get into it. And I remember, like, all these messages. I just deleted. I didn't even listen to them. And I told, I just told him, I go, look, it's your choice. You know, I don't love her any more than I love you. But, if that's how you believe, then, you know, I'm not going to tell you that you need to believe differently. I can only tell you my truth.

[00:33:20] And, if you want this to ruin your graduation, then that's your choice too. But, you know, you've gotten cars in the past. She needs a new car. And, this is what's happening. And, I just totally, I just did not add any fuel to the fire. I just completely ignored it. And, sure enough, you know, by the time graduation came, he was fine. But, I realized how much I would buy into that, you know, with his guilt and me going after him. And, I was just able to kind of disconnect from that instead of, like, reading every text message. You know, it was very empowering.

[00:33:50] And, today, you know, we really, we have a great relationship.

[00:33:53] And, you know, my daughter's been sober for 19 years, you know. And, there's been a lot of times where I could kind of get into that place of fear that she was going to start using again. She had gone to Burning Man about 10 years ago. And, oh, my God, I was, like, so afraid. Because, in the beginning, she, they have a sober camp. And, she was going to go with one of her sober friends. But, she backed out. So, she was going with a girl that wasn't sober.

[00:34:19] And, I was just so devastated and worried that she was going to start using again. But, again, it's Labor Day weekend, you know. So, I had the roundup. And, I remember going to people. And, I just, you know, seeing my sponsor and people telling me, like, if that were to happen, you know where to go. You know, it's like, just for today, you know, she's sober. Like, you know, just be happy for that. And, sure enough, you know, she was able to, you know, keep her sobriety. And, that's really none of my business. You know, I need to focus on myself and not worry about her.

[00:34:50] We have a daughter-in-law, you know, whose drinking bothers me at times. You know, I don't think she's an alcoholic. But, again, somebody doesn't need to be an alcoholic for their drinking to bother me. She'll get drunk at times. And, you know, Bruce and I can get really uncomfortable. She's, like, slurring her words. She has two of our grandchildren now. Her father and mother live with them. And, her father is a daily drinker. You know, he is an alcoholic. So, my grandchildren are raised in this home. And, you know, well, our granddaughter now is five years old. And, you know, if she hears an opening can, you know, she's like, you know, Bruce will open a soda. She's like, oh, you're having a beer, Papa? Because, that's what she associates, you know, with carrying that can. And, we're like, no, it's a soda.

[00:35:37] And, you know, I don't know what's going to happen with them. You know, we have a grandson, too, that is 12 years old now. And, you know, he has a father who is an alcoholic.

[00:35:49] And, you know, it's like, we don't know what's going to happen with the next generation. But, all we do know is that we need to work our program. And, we need to be there for them if they need that.

[00:36:01] You know, I kind of let go of, like, a lot of hobbies and things that I like to do. You know, during Kaylani's, like, you know, using years, it was, like, all about her. And, so, that was one thing that I loved about the program. You know, they say find hobbies. And, so, I started doing line dancing. You know, and, like, the teacher is another Al-Anon member who I first started doing that with. And, I just absolutely love it. You know, it's just something fun to do. And, funny enough, at the roundup, one of the gals that we see line dancing, she was there. You know, because she's struggling with her husband. You know, he just was sober for a week. So, it's just funny what a small community even says. You know, when I saw her, I let her know, look, it's all about anonymity. I mean, that's not something that I'm going to share with anybody in that group.

[00:36:50] You know, that's, this is your private business. And, so, I just think about, you know, what did I want to hear, you know, when I first came into these rooms. And, one of the big things was I didn't want other people to know my business. And, so, that was really important to me.

[00:37:08] And, I love the words of living a life that was happy, joyous, and free. You know, to me, that was just so comforting, you know. And, I never felt like I was ever, you know, truly joyful. You know, I never, like, lived in the moment. And, today, that's something I strive for. I have a lot of moments that I'm happy, joyous, and free.

[00:37:29] And, I think I'm pretty close to time.

[00:37:36] Ten minutes? Okay, great. Okay. So, let's see. Okay, so.

[00:37:44] Oh, okay.

[00:37:47] Okay, I got a lot of time. Okay.

[00:37:49] So, the other thing that, you know, kind of backing up to when I did my steps, you know, I did end up, like, letting Bruce read my autobiography. You know, I don't think I mentioned that. So, that was something that, you know, I finally allowed myself to be vulnerable. Because, you know, I always kind of wore, you know, like, this badge of honor that I never let anybody get too close to me. You know, I always, you know, I always had that fear that, you know, I'll never get my heart broken like my mom did because I'm never going to give anybody my heart. You know, you know, it was like, and that's kind of what I taught my daughter, you know, to be, like, really strong. You know, it's like I really loved that I wanted to be this very strong woman.

[00:38:28] And when I, you know, let him, you know, read that, it was like I had to be very vulnerable, you know. So, I was finally able to, like, let him love me, you know. And all these crazy things that I did, like, one of the things I was so embarrassed for, and it sounds so stupid now, was he, you know, we weren't living together at the time. And he is always on his, like, his phone is with him all the time. And so, I call him, he doesn't answer his phone. And so, I'm just like, okay, what's going on? I call him again, he doesn't answer his phone. So, I'm like, okay, he's probably cheating on me. So, I had, like, a remote to his garage. So, I'm like, okay, so, my, you know, it's like 12 o'clock at night. I've worked the next day. My kids have school, the Enterprise 7 and 8. I pack them in my car. We drive into his garage. And my idea is he's going to walk in his house with another woman and surprise, I'm going to be there.

[00:39:18] You know, it was just super crazy. And, again, he never showed up. And so, then it's, like, 4 o'clock in the morning. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I haven't even slept. I need to work the next day. So, I pack my kids in the car. We drive home.

[00:39:31] You know, my daughter says, did we go to Bruce's last night? I said, oh, no, you must have had a dream. And so, then Bruce calls me up at, like, 6 in the morning. Oh, yeah, my phone died. I had to go on this business trip. You know, so, again, it's just, like, crazy things. But I felt so much guilt and shame about that. And so, that was one of the things that, you know, was on my autobiography. I mean, how dumb. It's just, like, stupid things like that, you know. And some of the things my mom did, you know, that I was, like, so embarrassed about. Like, I never really wanted to tell him, like, all the crazy, crazy things my mom did.

[00:40:05] But when I was seven, we had gone to a neighbor's house to go swimming.

[00:40:10] And, you know, I was very, you know, I loved church. And I was very religious when I was a child. And they had this white Bible that was on their coffee table. And it had, like, bowl all around it. And I just remember thinking, oh, my gosh, like, this must have cost $100, you know. So, my mom tells me, you know, they're eating, like, some pork stew or something. And it was a Christian religion, but we weren't supposed to eat pork or shellfish. And so, my brother, you know, and sister, you know, they're eating it. But, oh, not me, you know, because I'm the chosen one. I don't do bad things. So, my mom's like, oh, well, Carolyn, you know, you love the Bible so much. Why don't you read them one of your favorite verses, you know. So, I walk over to the Bible, and I'm, like, opening to my favorite verse. And then my mom just grabs that in my hand.

[00:40:56] And she walks out into their backyard, takes all of her clothes off, and jumps into this swimming pool with this Bible. And I am just, like, mortified. You know, I turn around, and I look at, you know, our neighbors, and they're just, like, in shock. Like, what is she doing? And I was just, like, you know, so these are the things that would happen that I was so humiliated that, like, I did not want to tell Bruce this. You know, it's, like, he's going to think, oh, my God, she's going to, you know, end up snapping like her mom did. So, you know, just little things like that that I held on to a lot of guilt and shame that wasn't even mine, you know, to hold on to. But it was just a lot of fear, and that was one thing that I definitely learned was how much fear I had, you know.

[00:41:38] And it's, like, we have all these acronyms, you know, false evidence appearing real, you know, future events already ruined, you know, which I would do all the time. You know, even, like, you know, going to a holiday event when my sister and her husband were still drinking, I would get into this, like, crazy thing, like, oh, my God, that's going to happen, and then this. And, you know, and then I started realizing, you know, that we could just leave, you know, and a lot of times that would happen. Like, if they were hosting an event, you know, they would get drunk and burn the food, and, you know, we didn't have to stay. Like, we could leave and go out to dinner, you know, where I used to think that I was held hostage there when I really wasn't. And so those were, you know, really good things that I had learned into in this program.

[00:42:21] And, you know, today, you know, we still, you know, it's not like we don't have issues, but one thing we try to do is be on the same page with all the kids. And, you know, Bruce has two other older children, and, you know, his son, we had a strained relationship for a while. You know, we had ended up meeting up with him at another event one time, and he, you know, was drinking and was on medication and got really violent with him, you know. And he was, like, really afraid. I mean, one of our nephews had to come out there and kind of just, like, get him to kind of back off. And so, you know, we didn't see him for a couple of years. And so when we went to go see him for the first time, you know, we laid down some ground rules of what we were going to do. And, you know, Bruce at first was not happy about it.

[00:43:10] He does not like rules and, you know, me trying to control him, which I love to try to do. But, you know, we kind of came up with it together, like what we were going to do. And now, you know, we're able to have a good relationship with him. You know, we don't know if he's alcoholic. We just know that when he's drinking, he makes us uncomfortable. You know, he had issues with gambling. And a lot of times those addictions go hand in hand. But he doesn't identify as that. And so, you know, we just know that we can still have him in our life. But we just make sure that we're always in a safe environment with that.

[00:43:44] And one thing that was when we first started, you know, going into meetings and, you know, doing the steps, I wanted to pray with Bruce. You know, like I said, I was this really religious kid. And so it was like, you know, a new higher power for me. Because the God that I knew, you know, I would just pray for things I wanted and I wouldn't get them. And then I would get mad at God. And so what I learned here is like praying for God's will. And so now I know that if there's something bothering me, if I have an issue, and I pray for his will, you know, it will come. I might not get my answer immediately. It may be a day or a week. But I know when it comes, it's like it feels like a gentle decision.

[00:44:26] Instead of me making a decision and me feeling a lot of anxiety or angst about it, that's how I know when it's God's will and it's not mine. And so there's times when people ask something of me and I know that I can say, let me think about that. I'll get back to you. Instead of like immediately feeling like I have to make a decision. Because sometimes I need to, you know, go to my higher power to ask for his help.

[00:44:51] And so one of the things that I wanted to do was pray with him. And so in the morning, you know, we would read the daily readers. You know, we've got four of them now. And so we would go to the day and trade off. And I wanted to pray with him as well. And so he was like, oh, I'm not comfortable praying with you. That makes me uncomfortable. So he talked to a lady in one of his meetings. And she said, you know what? My husband and I, we have a prayer room. So what we do is every day we go through and we choose a different prayer and we read that. So she had made him this prayer ring. And so that's something that, you know, we don't always do it. But we try to start off, you know, our mornings with that. And it's really helped. And so one of my favorite prayers on this ring right here is this one. So I'd like to end with that.

[00:45:38] May today there be peace within. May you trust God, your higher power, that you are exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you have received and pass on the love that has been given to you. May you be content knowing you are a child of God. Let this presence settle in your bones and allow your soul the freedom to sing, dance, and bask in the sun. And it is there for each and every one of us. So thank you so much for listening today.